The folks who travel to every country and territory are a very special breed. They all have their individual motivations, but there’s an obsession that drives them to actually go everywhere, and I mean everywhere. It’s just not enough to join the Traveler’s Century Club, because if you made it that far, why not keep going? For starters, it requires a peculiar set of resources and skills. Financial, most certainly, but also hustle if you’re not insanely wealthy (which is very often the case). One needs an excellent grasp of logistics, and an acumen for resourcefulness, and most critically, to stay out of trouble. I’ve met several people who have ticked off all 195 UN-recognized countries, along with dozens of disputed territories that don’t quite make it (such as Transnistria, Abkhazia, Socotra, and other places you’ve likely never heard of). A good example is my friend Rus Margolin, and you can read my interviews with him here and here. This month, I was approached by a young Dane named Henrik Jeppesen who has spent 10 years achieving his impressive goal, which he’s recorded on a blog aptly titled everycountryintheworld.com. Henrik has been interviewing accomplished travellers and wanted to interview me. I agreed to answer his 8 questions of course, but not without asking him to answer 8 questions of my own. You can read my own answers to Henrik’s questions here.
Robin: I find the richness of full-time travel can become overwhelming, like eating too much of a rich dessert. You see five jungles, you've seen them all. How did you keep it fresh? How did you prevent yourself becoming a jaded traveller?
Henrik: That's a good question. I think I was not good at this. I, at times, felt like I've had the same kind of experience before. Sometimes it was a problem, sometimes not. The key was to keep doing something exciting. For example, one time, I did safari camps in Africa for several weeks in a row and it was getting tiring, but they still had many exciting moments. I think one of the best pieces of advice is to make sure to take breaks from travel. If you're doing full-time travel, you can do that by staying longer in one place. Nowadays, for myself, I prefer to go for quality rather than quantity. So instead of travelling full-time, I like to travel to places that make me excited and that I have researched properly.
Robin: You're clearly an artist when it comes to travel, but also an artist when it comes to obtaining sponsorship, flights, and comped hotels. Much like myself, you started on a tiny budget, but you've leveraged your experience and reputation into 5 star hotels and luxury resorts. I know just how difficult it is to make that happen, especially with the flood of social media influencers. What's your advice for would be professional travellers, and how do you do it?
Henrik: Be different. I started applying for sponsorships long before Instagram became popular. I think you would need one of two things. Have a special, unique project or a lot of followers. It's good to think about ideas for a project that's not been done before.
Robin: I read on your blog that one of your happiest moments was getting married. Having a partner definitely changes things, just wait until you have a family (I have 2 young kids, we travelled to 6 countries for a year in 2018, and stayed in over 50 hotels). Is ambitious travel a young person's adventure, do you prefer travelling alone or with a partner?
Henrik: It all depends on the company. I much prefer travelling with my wife. I have travelled with some people where I would have preferred to travel alone. If you travel with a friend for the first time, you don't really know if you are a good match for travelling together. So travelling with a new person for the first time is always going to be a risk. There's been good experiences and bad experiences for me travelling with friends, and people I didn't know well.
Robin: There's a silly debate over what constitutes "visiting" a country. A night, a week, stepping foot on the ground? I spent an afternoon in Paraguay, did that count? What's your thoughts on it?
Henrik: Yes, that absolutely counts as long as you have been inside a country; we can discuss whether a stop at an airport counts. Technically you have been in the country. I personally count a visit if you have cleared immigration.
Robin: So you've been everywhere, well done! Can you tell people who dream of seeing the world what you found at the end of the rainbow? What happened when you reached your goal, when there's nowhere left on the list?
Henrik: Thank you. It's a big accomplishment, but it's not like you win a gold medal at the end of it. It gives you credibility, the possibility to do public speaking, maybe some partnerships, perhaps some work opportunities. First and foremost, you do it for yourself, and it's great to know at least a bit about every country in the world based on first-hand experiences.
Robin: The pandemic has devastated the tourism industry, and along with the challenges of climate change, it might be many years before we'll be able to travel the same way again. With the now-forgotten issue of overtourism, it's a valid question whether we should go back to the way things were in the first place. What are your thoughts on the future of travel?
Henrik: I think travel will make a massive comeback. Many people want to travel, but we will perhaps travel in some different ways than before. Probably it will be a more hygienic experience to travel on public transportation, including airlines, I think. All airports might have hand sanitisers as a standard. I also think there will be a market for slow travel, where people would like to fly direct and spend a long time at a hotel, for example, a month.
Robin: Country-counters are a special breed of traveller. The goal becomes an obsession. I felt the same way, until I hit 100 countries, and then it just sort of felt like I was missing the point, going on too many first dates without developing or deepening the romance. Someone is going to read this and want to follow in our footsteps, to see and do it all. What advice do you have for them?
Henrik: Don't push yourself too hard. Stress is a terrible thing. If your time allows it, the best thing is to travel slowly and enjoy the places you visit. The challenge for many people who have visited every country I feel, especially the young people, is that they would like to accomplish something while young, meaning they cannot spend three months in each country. Many people don't really have the time to visit every country in a proper way. So, some of the least attractive countries from a tourist perspective, won't get much attention, at least in a lot of cases.
Robin: Staying safe on the road comes down to common sense, instinct, relationships, and a little bit of luck. You write about having four mishaps, but it never stopped your journey. What mistake do you think people often make that leaves them vulnerable to crime, illness, scams etc on the road?
Henrik: Looking like tourists! Not only can travelling light save you a lot of money and discomfort, but it can also save you from a much bigger risk of being a victim of a crime. I don't like being out at night in a lot of places, so if you are like me in this regard it can also lower your risk of something bad happening. Another tip is to try and look confident, busy, and look like you know exactly where you need to go. Don't look lost.
When we last caught up with travel-fanatic Rus Margolin, he had just been to over 100 countries. Well, he just ticked off his 200th. I met Rus at Arctic Watch, one of the highlights on The Great Canadian Bucket List, and the kind of remote shore where rather interesting people wash up. For example, former-bond traders from New York who decide to visit every country in the world. Many years ago, I remember telling a girl in Hungary that I was travelling around the world, and without missing a beat, she asked me: So, what have you learned?” I caught up with Rus for a conversation about travel, experiences, highlights, some places you might not have heard of, and what he has learned himself. Check out some of his incredible photos in the slideshow above.
RE: I bet a lot of people ask you what your favourite country is. Does it drive you crazy?
RM: It's pretty much the most common question. And the less travelled people ask it even more. And my typical answer is: It depends. Are you interested in culture, history, nature, landscapes, people, food? And so on…
RE: Travel is so personal. I always tell people, “just because I had a great time in X, doesn’t mean you will.” Perhaps folks just want reassurance. I do like throwing in amazing countries they wouldn’t have thought of much, like Sri Lanka, and Cook Islands.
RM: I do the same and go a step further - Mauritania, Greenland, Turkmenistan, Iran, Vanuatu. See how their eyes open wide in disbelief. Djibouti as well.
RE: At this point, you could just start making names up! I’ve got a text box in my new Global Bucket List book about the amount of countries in the world. “The United Nations currently has 193 members; the US State Department recognizes 195. FIFA has 208 members because it takes into account countries that are governed by other countries but can still kick a soccer ball. Most sources give the number at 196.” How do you define a country? How many are on your list?
RM: I have my own list of countries. To me a country is not a UN entity but more like a unique destination - with it's own culture, nature, people, history, geographic isolation, and its own government. You start with a UN list, add various former colonies and islands and territories, add a bunch of de facto independent countries and you get close to 300. Greenland, Cayman Islands, Transdniester, New Caledonia, Galapagos, Easter Island, Canary Islands - these are all countries to me. Here’s my full list of countries.
RE: And is your goal to visit all of them?
RM: Not the primary objective. I am interested in seeing the most incredible and unique places in the world, having incredible experiences while doing it, and meeting people from all over the world. Plus I like contrasts - one day you are trekking Rwenzori Mountains in Uganda, next week you are in Norway seeing Northern lights, next week you are clubbing in NYC and next week you are in the South American jungle. I am also still trying to see every possible animal migration and mammal species there is.
RE: I found the richness of the experience can become overwhelming, like eating too much dessert. How do you keep it fresh? How do you prevent becoming a jaded traveller?
RM: Alternate the experiences. When I got to "chateau-ed out" in France, I went hiking in Pyrenees. When the Western European democracy gets under your skin - you try Russia or Egypt.
RE: I’m sure many readers will be asking themselves: how the heck does this guy afford it? Were you a Wolf on Wall Street? Do you have to make personal and professional sacrifices to travel with such dedication?
RM: The fact is that travelling is actually often cheaper then living in a big metropolitan city. In many countries you can survive on $50 per day in relative comfort. The biggest expense of travel is airfare - which you minimize of you country to neighboring country, or allow for flexibility in finding cheap flights. You could lease a car in Europe for a long-term lease as cheap as 20 euro a day. South America, Asia, Middle East are all relatively cheap. Professionally it's definitely a huge sacrifice - but I’d rather look back at my life and think about incredible experiences than stare at a bank account or remember sitting in front of monitors and watching markets oscillate.
RE: Oscillating in Transdniester. That’s a good title for a book. And I confess I’d never heard of Transdniester until you mentioned it!
RM: In Transdniester you actually experience time travel. It's like going back to USSR - Lenin statues, rubles with hammer and sickle on them, beer in metal barrels sold in the streets. It's a completely independent country with its own government, money, military and police, language, sports teams. Just not recognized by UN
RE: I just looked it up on Wikipedia just in case you were making it up! OK, so what country did you find the most welcoming, and what country was the most hostile?
RM: For the most part I have to say that pretty much every country is welcoming. You always meet people who are proud of their country and want to show it to you. Iran was probably the biggest surprise in how open and friendly people were. Same for Cuba. Slovakia, Rwanda, the Pacific Island nations, Central Asia. Different culturally, definitely, but open arms everywhere. Perhaps maybe the Gulf Countries were a bit stuffy. But so are some states in USA.
RE: Have you noticed any universalities among the nations? Is globalization as prevalent in the cultural sense as the media would have us believe?
RM: Well, there’s cell phones. No matter how poor or isolated the country is - everybody has iPhones or smart phones of some sort, and most places have wifi. It was easier or find wifi in Egypt then in New York.
RE: Even in Transdniester and Djibouti?
RM: Transdniester absolutely. Djibouti, in the capital city. When I was camping in the desert, not so much.
RE: You’re chasing migrations and mammals too. What’s your favourite mammal? Some of them can be quite elusive. Like the virtuous and honest politician (or so I’m told...)
RM: I haven't met a virtuous and honest (or even either/or) politician yet. In the animal world - gorillas, orangutans, whales, grizzlies, elephants, lions are much easier and more enjoyable to deal with.
RE: You take some incredible images (some of which I’ve used in my books). Do you have a favourite? The pic that always brings a smile to your face?
RM: My top 3 stunning places, visually: Danakil in Ethiopia, Kamchatka in Russia, the Icefjord in Greenland. Most pictures bring incredible memories. That's the beauty of travel. Every country and city gets a real feel and taste and color, rather than just being a name on the map. Some of my favorite pics were from most insane experiences - like hugging a white baby seal in Canada, standing on top of Mt Kenya, stretching my arm toward a gorilla or whale shark, dancing my ass off in Ibiza during fluorescent spray-paint night. It's an endless list really.
RE: So, you travel around the world. What have you learned?
RM: Be open to other people and their views of life; be respectful of their cultures and traditions; try every food you can; take on all physical challenges; learn about everything and anything. Enrich yourself with knowledge and experiences, and then continue to repeat the process. The sky truly is the limit.
RE: I totally agree. And what’s next?
RM: A small trip to British Virgin Islands, then back to New York for DJ classes. And then: West Africa, Polynesia, Mongolia, India, more of Brazil and Russia
Please come in. Mahalo for removing your shoes.
After many years running a behemoth of a blog called Modern Gonzo, I've decided to a: publish a book or eight, and b: make my stories more digestible, relevant, and deserving of your love.
Here you will find some of my adventures to over 100 countries, travel tips and advice, rantings, ravings, commentary, observations and ongoing adventures.